WOMEN OF XINJIANG:

AN INTERVIEW WITH REBIYA KADEER

By Carneades

Rebiya Kadeer is known for being one of the most successful businesswomen and political activists from China’s north western region of Xinjiang , defending her “fellow” Uyghurs and women’s rights. In the past, she made a significant contribution to the improvement of  women’s rights; as a result of which,  in 1995, she was appointed to the Chinese People’s Political Consultative Conference (CPPCC) and sent as one of the country’s delegates to the United Nations World Conference on Women. In 1996, she founded the Thousand Mother’s Movement to help Uyghur women start their own business.    She was arrested in 1999 for sending newspapers overseas which were defined by China as material containing state secrets. Sentenced to eight years, she was released early (March 2005) and exiled to the United States a few days before the visit of the U.S. Secretary of State to Beijing, just when America stated it would not present a motion critical of China at the United Nations Human Rights Commission in Geneva.   She was a candidate for the 2006 Nobel Peace Price, even if China’s Foreign Ministry spokesman, Qin Gang, accused her of maintaining links with alleged terrorist organisations of East Turkistan. She has engaged in numerous interviews and debates for two years, during which she has become a symbol of freedom and hope for Uyghur people.

1. When and where were you born and raised?

I was born in 1946 in the Altai Region where the urban population was predominantly Uyghur and the rural one was almost exclusively Kazak; there were no Chinese people to influence our culture, so I had the opportunity to grow up with Uyghur ways and customs.

2. In retrospect, how do you think your parents shaped your character?

I lived in a happy family where my parents respected each other. My dad ran a small business and my mum took care of the home. My father gave us most of our education: he used to tell us a lot of stories regarding Uyghur history and how we should live as Uyghur people. The duty of my mother was to serve my dad and us: she stayed at home, took care of the children, cooked nice meals, invited friends at home and organised parties. She always liked to wear make up and dress up. After the Chinese invasion, when the Chinese Government forced men and women to dress in the same way, she never changed her style of dress. In short, I would say they shaped my character teaching me mainstream Uyghur culture and traditions.

3. What was the situation for women’s rights in Xinjiang before and after the “Chinese invasion”?

Before the Chinese occupation of East Turkistan, social freedoms were enjoyed and Uyghurs were very polite and friendly with foreigners, they treated all people kindly, especially women and children. Women’s status was respected by Uyghur society: women had access to education, they wore everything they wanted, used make up and had long hair, liberally moved around and went out with their female friends, and, most of all, they always strove to be good wives and mothers: they stayed at home and took care of the children and family. I never heard about women committing crimes, I never saw women in prison, smoking cigarettes or drinking alcohol. Undoubtedly, men respected them very well, offered them jewellery and nice clothes.

The change happened after the Chinese occupation of East Turkistan. Actually, at first Chinese soldiers were very respectful: we had a good relationship with them. Gradually, they changed their policy, they no longer respected Uyghur customs, they no longer cared about our opinion. They imposed new rules on us, they started to change our customs, basically they started to destroy our culture, our music, our art. The Chinese Government said “Women are equal to men, we want to treat them in the same way, we want to liberate women”. Then, they forced Uyghur women to work extremely hard, to work like men, to separate them from their children, to cut their hair and wear green uniform instead of skirts. This is the Chinese equality we obtained! As a result, the conception of Uyghur education also changed as women no longer educated their children with our culture, but with the Chinese culture. And today, we have big moral problems because Uyghur people have lost their moral values, they don’t know right from wrong anymore, they are just worried about their lives, they no longer care about other people, they only think about themselves. In East Turkistan, you can now see men hitting and/or screaming at women. We can’t compare the situation of Uyghur women before the Chinese occupation to that of Uyghur women after the Chinese occupation. As a matter of fact, Uyghur women never achieved equality because of the Chinese policy.

4. You mentioned that women “stayed at home and took care of the children and family”. Can you explain the Uyghur conception of equality between men and women?

What I said doesn’t mean inequality between men and women. In Uyghur culture, although men and women have different roles, both are equals. Uyghur women are not aggressive, they don’t care about going out every day, being businesswomen or getting involved in politics, but if they are interested in something, nobody stops them. I should mention two important examples: we had an Uyghur Queen who was very active and an Uyghur heroine who fought against the Manchus.

In my opinion, equality doesn’t mean that women work like men on the street. Women should know how to educate their children, how to develop as good people, how to contribute to make a good society: this is a good equality!

5. Chinese researchers maintain that gender inequality in Uyghur society is attributed to Islam. Can you tell me more about this?

It’s absolutely untrue that gender inequality is connected to Islam because our religion is different from that Islam which treats their women as second class citizens.

We accept only the essence of Islam because before we believed in other religions. In East Turkistan, Uyghur women are free, Uyghur men don’t force them to wear the veil, it’s their choice. It’s just Chinese propaganda which trying to say that Uyghur women are oppressed because we are Muslims. Actually, before the Chinese occupation Uyghur women had more freedom than now. In short, the inequality is not rooted in family structure, it is not connected to Islam, it is just connected to Chinese politics. We don’t like Chinese “equality” because it doesn’t give us equality, it just destroys our morality, it makes Uyghur people ignorant, immoral and uneducated, that’s why today they cannot do without alcohol and drugs.

6. With regard to the status of women in Islamic countries, there is a debate arguing that  modernity is not compatible with the culture of Islamic society. Do you see any differences between women’s lives in Xinjiang and in Central Asia?

Currently, in Central Asia, the situation for women in Uzbekistan only is very bad because of Karimov’s regime, not because of Islamic regime. I am sure there are some radical elements in Uzbekistan because of its proximity to Afghanistan; however, generally speaking, people decide to embrace Islamic radicalism because they have no hopes and dreams. Then, in Uzbekistan men are more oppressive to women because they are sick of Karimov’s dictatorship, it’s not because Muslim people want to treat women badly.

For Uyghur people the situation is totally different: they have always fought against Islamic radicalism. In the end, I would say that Islamic radicalism hasn’t had a big impact on Uyghur people: in East Turkistan you can see girls and boys playing and dancing together, you don’t see this in other Islamic countries.

7. Don’t you think that the status of modern Uyghur woman is the result of globalization?

Not at all! It is not the result of globalization because if it had been in this way, we would have kept some aspects of our culture. It is just the result of Chinese policy that forces Uyghur people to become what they are today. We can’t write anything about our culture and if we do it, we will be arrested; if we write an article on the internet, they censor our websites. Today, Uyghur people can only listen to Chinese propaganda, so most of them start to believe Chinese culture is best, even if they are like Chinese slaves. They don’t realize the situation they are in, they can’t understand the conception of human rights.

8. After the Chinese occupation, have you noticed any differences between women’s lives in the cities and in the countryside?

As far as I am concerned, Uyghur women in East Turkistan are divided in two categories: women who come from the rural areas and women who come from the big cities. In the cities, the Chinese Government has done a good job in brainwashing them. Some of them believe in Chinese propaganda and accept their equality: they work like men and become corrupt in their thinking, that’s why they use their money to organise parties, not to educate their children.

When I was in East Turkistan, I was shocked because they didn’t realize what was going on, they no longer cared about Uyghur culture.

In the countryside, even if they are still innocent, they are not educated because their parents don’t have any money to send them to school. The Chinese Government takes advantage of this situation: instead of helping poor farmers to educate their children, they force them to send their daughters to mainland China to work. Many parents totally disagree because it is not part of the Uyghur culture to send children faraway, but the Chinese Government obliges them to do it: if farmers don’t give them their children, the Government doesn’t give them fertilisers and water. So what can they do? In the end, on mainland China most of these girls are trafficked to other places and forced to become prostitutes because they have no money to rent a place or to buy food. If the Chinese Government says that Uyghur people are treated equally, why does the Government educate these girls? Why can’t it help these girls to look for a good jobs in their homeland, instead of taking them, sending them faraway and forcing them to become prostitutes?

9. Can you explain the present situation concerning women’s education?

Uyghur girls would like to go to school, but it’s not their choice because the power is in Chinese hands. For the sake of so-called Chinese equality, they take some Uyghur girls and send them to mainland China to study and grow up in a Chinese background in order to “brainwash” them.

The percentage of Uyghur women in education is quite low. Most Uyghur women from the countryside are not educated.

10. Can you also explain the present situation regarding employment for woman?

You can now see women in East Turkistan moving to other cities, laying roads and building skyscrapers for the Chinese Government.  This movement is called “Hashar” (forced labour): their salary is very low, they have to bring their own food and drinks, get up early in the morning, work 10-12 hours per day, then come back home and take care of their family and children. This is the freedom and equality Uyghur women obtain from the Chinese Government!

When I was in East Turkistan, I asked one woman: “Why are you doing this kind of job? This is not equality, are you forgetting your family?” She replied by saying that it was equality because she was working like a man, she was carrying iron bars like a man.

One day, I went to a farm, I gave women food and clothes, but they instead of thanking me, they said to me “Long Live Mao Zedong!”, and they even said “Thank the Chinese Communist Party”.

After that, I witnessed first-hand that the Chinese Government policy has destroyed our culture, our history. The Chinese propaganda says we are ignorant, superstitious, so we need their help. That’s why I have never accepted their freedom and equality because those magic words are only Chinese lies.

11. Traditionally, Chinese society has always regarded women as second class citizens. Do you see any differences between Chinese and Uyghur women?

It’s impossible to compare Chinese and Uyghur women. Chinese women have everything: power, money, work, access to education and they can speak their mother tongue, they can go wherever they want. On the contrary, Uyghur women cannot go to study abroad because it is really difficult to get a passport, they can’t get a good job, they are forced to send children to Chinese schools, they are always afraid that Chinese Government could imprison their children. The only opportunity Uyghur girls have is to work in restaurants if they are good-looking. Every time they want to do something, they have to ask the Chinese Government, without their approval they can’t do anything: the Uyghurs have no rights, the Chinese have rights.

12. In 1996 you founded the Thousand Mothers Movement. Where and how did you get the courage to do that? Tell me about the kind of work this movement involved? What is your dream for your people?

I have been forced to become who I am today because I have realized the difference between what was going on before and after the Chinese occupation to Uyghur woman. When I was a member of the Chinese People’s Political Consultative Conference my duty was to investigate the status of Uyghur women, then I realized the tragic destiny of thousands of Uyghur women.

The aim of the Thousand Mothers Movement is to help Uyghur women who live in the countryside to do business, help their children, make them understand that Chinese equality is not real equality. At the same time, I want to help Uyghur women who live in the city to change their immoral lives and share their money with other poor women. Most Uyghur women need someone who takes the initiative, who becomes their leader, who leads them to the right way.

When we had the first meeting, I was really surprised because some 2000-3000 women and men came to attend it at the same time. I told them: “We have to improve the situation of our region, we have to help women, our children, and we especially have to understand the real meaning of equality between men and women. Going to parties, drinking and smoking is not equality.” Everybody was happy for this, then we decided to collect as many donations to build schools and hospitals and organise different groups to teach women how to do business and how to take care of their children with Uyghur culture. All of them trusted me and followed my example.

My dream is to teach Uyghur men and women how to respect each other; but I need help in this, I need American and European Governments and everyone who is involved in human rights to help me.

13. How did the Chinese Government react to this?

The Chinese Government totally disagreed. Even if we were involved in social rights and not in politics, they felt threatened by the Thousand Mothers Movement because they were afraid that Uyghur woman would realize what was going on.

On the contrary, they just want Uyghur people to remain ignorant and immoral because in this way it is easier to control us. Their strategy is not obvious, but their aim is to destroy Uyghur women through prostitution, forced-abortion and forced-sterilizations because women can fall pregnant and can have Uyghur children.

14. Following the foundation of Thousand Mothers Movement, are women’s rights improving in Xinjiang?

As a matter of fact, the situation is not improving, equality between men and women is getting worse, the situation continues to deteriorate, but this movement has made more people understand and realize what is happening in East Turkistan and how they can improve the situation on their own.

15. If Uyghur woman read this interview and they wanted to learn something from your life, what advice would you give them?

I would like to conclude by telling Uyghur women not to lose their hope because I believe that everything is possible. I have hope, that’s why I am here. If I lose hope, I can’t do anything for my people. The Chinese Government is scared of me because I give hope to my people, I give hope to Uyghur women.